This week brings us part 2 of a two-part episode with friend and spiritual guide, Drew Assini. Drew shares his recent experience with working in an inpatient facility in Tennessee. As trauma survivors, we tend to spend a lot of time getting wrapped up in our own thoughts. In this week’s episode, Drew and Alyssa get into the importance of sometimes turning down the noise in your head so that you can also tune into your intuition, or gut feelings. Drew shares how his intuition is ultimately what propelled him to leave Tennessee and head back to his home state before preparing for his next adventure to Guatemala.

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Transcript:

 

Alyssa Scolari [00:24]:

[inaudible 00:00:24]. It’s so hard. It’s so, so hard. So when you say, “I’m really glad that I was able to hold that space and hang out in that space for a little while,” how was that helpful for you? How was that rewarding for you in your journey?

Drew Assini [00:44]:

I mean, so through grad school and then teaching a couple of years later for a couple of years, yeah, I mean, I got the whole DSM therapy skillset, which yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of similarities that I find in the different approaches in modern counseling and modern psycho-therapeutic approach and interventions to other healing modalities and other understandings of the human experience. Yeah. So I felt like that was cool. And then also, as much as I got to see cool things, I also got to see stuff I didn’t want to [inaudible 00:01:24]. So I definitely didn’t want to be the super cognitive, no feelings involved kind of guy. I didn’t want to be the super blank slate where everything that a person says is just projecting on you. In that world, we would say, I come from a more humanist type perspective.

Yeah. It was just cool. And then it allows me to have conversations with other healers who currently identify as counselors within the current paradigm. Because we don’t have a healing profession. You’re coming of age in modern society in America and there’s no avenue for … Well, I guess now maybe a little bit more as far as a holistic or alternative approach to healing or medicine, but it’s not as clearly defined as say, okay, be a counselor or be a mental health counselor or a drug counselor. And so for me, that’s where I went. And then as a result of my own journey professionally, personally, I blossomed into whatever it is that I am now. So it feels cool to be able to then have conversations with you or with other therapists or with other mental health professionals. And it’s like, yep. Yep. I know about that. Yeah. That was cool. That wasn’t cool.

Alyssa Scolari [02:45]:

The good, the bad and the ugly, man. But you’re right. There really isn’t kind of a direction you can go to be more sort of holistic and I think really experiential. It’s like, all right, counselor, therapist, psychologist, et cetera. Now I think what I see now popping up more is a lot more people who are going into what is called coaching. And I don’t know specifically the regulations on it, but I speak with some of these people who are coaches and I actually get so pissed. And you want to know why I get so pissed? Because they do shit that I would lose my license for. And I’m not talking bad shit. I’m not talking bad stuff. But they’re like, yeah. So with my clients, I’m hosting this retreat. This retreat, we’re all going to meet here. It’s going to be a weekend of X, Y, yoga, healing, meditation, what have you. I would be in jail. I mean, okay. I probably wouldn’t be in jail. But I would get in so much trouble because that’s considered a boundary violation. I am pretty good friends with this person who is a coach and she’s like, “Can’t you have some of your clients on a retreat?” I was like, “No. Absolutely not.” I get so jealous because I’m like, I should’ve just been a coach because in the coaching industry, there’s room for a lot more of that stuff.

Drew Assini [04:23]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Also, I don’t know, I feel blessed where I’m at now because I have the very specific and in-depth training that we’re afforded as licensed mental health professionals.

Alyssa Scolari [04:36]:

Totally.

Drew Assini [04:36]:

But now I’ve stepped through and beyond that to where I can work in more of utilizing a coaching framework, more so than the traditional clinical kind of model. But I mean, there’s benefits. My brain keeps going to I don’t know that I need to sing kumbaya and roast s’mores with my heart surgeon. Just go do the thing and then we don’t have to hang out anymore. So for some people, it might be way cooler to be able to go and see a professional like yourself without any of the extras, to just really be able to hit some specific, deep thing that they don’t want to deal with anymore and they don’t want reminders of. And so, yeah, I guess I can see the value of it. It’s also cool to grow into a place where it’s like, all right, that isn’t necessarily how I want to show up or how I’m most effective, and so now I’m going to step into this non traditional kind of do what feels right vibe. But again, I mean, I have the varying ethics also drilled into my brain. So I’m aware when there’s a gray zone or there’s like, oh, okay, that’s a boundary. How do we want to handle that?

The other thing too, I would throw out is that coaching is a different way to work than counseling. But even within the clinical world now, I got to see a lot of the more experiential stuff that’s starting to become more accepted, more empirically supported, as far as psychodrama, sociometry and a lot of the more experiential stuff. So it feels like psychology is figuring some stuff out, but they’re not the only game on the block.

Alyssa Scolari [06:21]:

Yeah. No. I think the psychology world is definitely making steps in the right direction. I think we’re trying to break down just the symptom management because I think for a while there, it really was just about symptom management. My passion is always to go beyond that. I just always want to dive so much deeper than symptom management.

Drew Assini [06:44]:

Yes. I’m with you. The other thing that’s dinging in the back of my head is also just if somebody’s come in with trauma, like if we have acute trauma or active trauma in our system and we’re looking for support, or help, or we want to do some work, or we want to find some relief, we should do our homework. Because while the coach might be really cool, like, oh, I want a coach and a lifestyle coach, and I want to go on retreats, that might not be the most appropriate individual or that individual might not have the education or the training or the experience to be able to go to the depths, to be able to hold the space, to be able to go through protocols like EMDR. So yeah. It just felt like an important thing to throw out there.

Alyssa Scolari [07:24]:

Yeah. Absolutely. Have you ever done any EMDR?

Drew Assini [07:27]:

I personally have not, no.

Alyssa Scolari [07:29]:

I have not either.

Drew Assini [07:31]:

I’m just an old school exposure guy when I do that stuff. Listen, you got to feel it. Let’s create the containers and provide the skills, everything that we go through. But ultimately, at the end of the day, you got to lean in to the thing that you’re running from if you want your experience to change.

Alyssa Scolari [07:48]:

Can you expand on that, the word that you just said, container? Because I think that’s really important too, when it comes to trauma work.

Drew Assini [07:56]:

Oh yeah. You got to have a super firm, super solid container to be able to go deep. When I was working at the treatment center in Nashville, I was very clear with the guys. I’m like, “Look, I’m going to be soft. I’m going to be present with you. We’re going to do a lot of mushy, emotional related stuff. And we can do that work because there is a very firm, solid container around it. And if anybody comes to challenge that container, you’re going to get a whole different version of Drew that shows up,” because being the threshold guardian is a much different role than being the facilitator of [inaudible 00:08:28]. And so, yeah, I mean, that’s why, I don’t know, residential settings in some ways are the most ideal environment to go as deep as possible because there’s a lot of outside noise that’s turned down and a lot of support that’s turned way up.

Alyssa Scolari [08:45]:

Absolutely. I think that’s one of the biggest appeals for a residential. Is that right? All that stuff can come to the surface and you’re safe. You have all the support. You have as much support as you can possibly get. Yeah. I like the idea of being able to do the work outside of residential, but I also acknowledge that with some types of trauma … Sometimes I feel like my healing would have catapulted itself, I would have healed a lot faster if I had just gone to residential.

Drew Assini [09:17]:

Yeah. I mean, again, my most recent experiences are at that level of care, so I’m a little biased. But yeah. I mean, there’s a way to make a lot of progress and improvement in a short time period when the person doesn’t have to deal with all of the life responsibilities and go in and out of the treatment setting or in and out of that supportive container, when they’re just in it. It’s like I watched a slow cook happen. And then when it was time to go a little bit deeper, it was much easier to get there when folks were spending a week or two weeks or six weeks in a controlled environment with supportive staff around the clock and a community vibe.

The work we did in Nashville was really, really cool. I was just going to say, before I had gone there, I was always a little gun shy about working with trauma. Because I got trained mental health, but most of my background was with addiction. And so I was good at doing the addiction flavor. And as I continued in my own journey and also working with folks, it’s like, oh shit, this addiction stuff is the surface; underneath is the trauma. And so yeah, going to do the work in Nashville was the first time I’m like, all right, I’m going to go do trauma work. And I was a little scared at first because I’m like, all right. But it was so cool, man, and so amazing to be a part of that. Yeah.

Alyssa Scolari [10:48]:

It’s absolutely beautiful. I love that experience for you. To me, that shows the growth, and it’s kind of like what we said right in the very beginning, which is, even when you think you’ve got it all, you don’t. There’s always something else that comes up. And I think even you, like you said, at 40, you’re still having these moments of, I think, significant growth, significant turning points.

Drew Assini [11:15]:

Totally.

Alyssa Scolari [11:16]:

And I love that because the journey, I think, is never ending, which is not a bad thing. I don’t see that as a bad thing.

Drew Assini [11:25]:

No. I mean, yeah. It just keeps getting cooler and weirder and more fun.

Alyssa Scolari [11:31]:

Right. Cooler, weirder, more unexpected. You’re like, all right. I never saw myself doing this, but here I go.

Drew Assini [11:38]:

No. Yeah. My life is definitely not the result of me figuring it out or picking what I would want. And it feels like the most recent shift has been one of now honoring my heart and my gut over my head with some stuff. So working down there in Nashville, I mean, six months working acute trauma, it takes a toll. As rewarding as it is to see all this beautiful growth and change, transformation, it still takes a toll to be in that space and to be supporting folks.

Alyssa Scolari [12:22]:

Yeah, hugely.

Drew Assini [12:24]:

So my heart and my gut were kind of like, all right. There was a natural lull in the census. The census dipped a little bit. And my heart and my gut were like, all right. Now’s the time to take a break, go to something new. But my head was still trying to figure out why everybody should do their jobs better and why management didn’t know what they were doing, and I need to figure this out. And I was still caught up in dramas in my head, but my heart and my gut were exiting the building. And it felt like one of the first times in my life where I didn’t let my mind or my brain or my thoughts be the final gavel on a decision. I just leaned in with the heart and the gut and put in my notice and started to look at plane tickets. And it’s weird, man. It’s so weird. But it’s cool. It seems like it’s the next chapter, so I’ll roll with it.

Alyssa Scolari [13:23]:

It feels like it’s how we’re meant to live. How much more peaceful would we be if we just followed our heart and our gut wherever they took us and turned off the noise in our head and was just like …. Would any of us choose to do the same thing for the next 40, 50 years of our lives? Would any of us? Who knows? I get we’re creatures of habit, but if we turned off the noise in our head, what level of experience could we turn this up to, the human experience?

Drew Assini [14:03]:

It’s a cool question.

Alyssa Scolari [14:05]:

I mean, the moment I started doing that was the moment I started loving life so much more. It was like, I’m getting out of my head and just doing what I want. For the longest time, I had this pool right in my head of I have to say in New Jersey. I have to say in New Jersey. It makes sense to stay in New Jersey. I was born and raised here. But my heart and my gut were like, you need to get out. You need to get out of New Jersey. And I think I just got to a point, and this was actually fairly recently, over the last couple of months, where I was like, fuck this. I can’t be in the space of my head is telling me it makes more sense to do this, but my heart is, no. You are meant to do this shit instead. And I’ve just been rolling with it. And I’m like, all right. We’re leaving Jersey. Goodbye, New Jersey. I’m changing things up with my career because it’s just what my gut is telling me. So yeah. I feel like that’s the best nugget of advice is to try to turn the noise off in your head.

Drew Assini [15:12]:

And I would offer that maybe it’s not turning the noise off, if that doesn’t resonate for somebody. If you can do that, do that.

Alyssa Scolari [15:20]:

We’re just turning it down.

Drew Assini [15:22]:

Or just not giving it the same credit. If you were going to do a play or you were going to make a movie or whatever, certain people’s opinions about your movie, you would value more than others. And so part of stepping out of systems that no longer support us or dynamics that are dysfunctional or toxic is learning how to reprioritize what perspective we value or what truths we’re actually going to align with. And I think if we can do that internally as well, where it’s like, okay, okay, mind. You’re cool and you keep me safe a lot, but also, I want to live so maybe when it comes to this part of my life, you’re going to be number two or number three behind my heart and my gut.

Alyssa Scolari [16:08]:

Yeah. Kind of changing the pecking order, so to speak.

Drew Assini [16:12]:

Yeah. Yeah. Just playing with the relationship dynamics and how we value them. Yeah. Easier said than done, of course.

Alyssa Scolari [16:24]:

Easier said than done. Absolutely. But you know what I noticed? When you really start to tune into your gut, I think I have a better relationship with myself than I ever did before. I can truly feel when things are and aren’t right for me. Whereas before, I might be like, all right, let me think about it, and then I would stress about it for six months and never make a decision. Whereas now, if somebody’s saying something to me, my stomach immediately is like, nah. I could physically feel the changes happening in my gut. It’s letting me know. And I’m more in tune with that now that I’ve, kind of like you said, I’ve reprioritized what I’m listening to in my body, and now I’m more in tune with my gut than I’ve ever been before, which actually has truthfully made me physically healthier too.

Drew Assini [17:23]:

Sure.

Alyssa Scolari [17:24]:

When you’re tuning into your gut. Because I mean, it also is the same thing with how am I going to nourish this body? How am I going to take care of this body today? I feel like my gut just speaks to me. Is that a weird statement? It probably is. Whatever.

Drew Assini [17:36]:

I think it’s awesome.

Alyssa Scolari [17:41]:

Whatever.

Drew Assini [17:41]:

So good. So good.

Alyssa Scolari [17:48]:

So you’re out of here in a few days.

Drew Assini [17:51]:

Yep. Yeah.

Alyssa Scolari [17:52]:

Guatemala.

Drew Assini [17:53]:

Yeah. For a little bit. And then who knows?

Alyssa Scolari [17:57]:

Are you going to be producing any new episodes of The Driveabout Podcast?

Drew Assini [18:02]:

That’s on the radar. Yes. Yeah. I tried to get the season finale, the long overdue season finale, to season three done while I was in Nashville. But yeah, I wound up getting a piece of food stuck in my esophagus and had to go to the hospital.

Alyssa Scolari [18:22]:

Oh God.

Drew Assini [18:22]:

Oh yeah. It was a whole thing.

Alyssa Scolari [18:24]:

Oh shit.

Drew Assini [18:27]:

So maybe I could get the third season done finally while I’m here in Jersey and then maybe season four can be a Guatemala experience.

Alyssa Scolari [18:37]:

So you were choking to death? You said, “I got a piece of food,” very casually, “Got a piece of food stuck in my esophagus, had to go to the hospital.” What?

Drew Assini [18:48]:

No. It’s apparently a thing that’s super common that I did not know about. But yeah. I’ve noticed for me that I sometimes am not super mindful when I’m eating, especially when I’m eating with other people. So if we’re in conversation, I get all fired up and then I forget to chew things. It also doesn’t help that I’ve gotten a bunch of molars taken out over the last couple of years. But yeah, so this piece of pulled pork was delicious and apparently I didn’t chew it well enough and so it got stuck in my esophagus. Now, I could still breathe, but it couldn’t clear. And so without being too graphic, I spent three hours, my body trying to purge and clear this piece of food that was stuck in the folds of the esophagus before finally having to go to the hospital. And then they knocked me out and threw a tube down my throat.

Alyssa Scolari [19:39]:

I didn’t even think that was a thing.

Drew Assini [19:43]:

Apparently it’s a really common thing. So I did not know about it either, but yeah, it was not pleasant or a lot of fun.

Alyssa Scolari [19:52]:

No. Holy crap. Yeah. So were you literally about to record the finale? Your plan was to do that?

Drew Assini [20:03]:

My plan was to record the finale, and then a day or two before, that happened. So then I was trying to record the finale, but I still had med head, I was all wonky and my throat was still scratchy because they put a tube down it. Sometimes it’s actually really challenging for me to record an episode because the inner critic gets real loud and nitpicky.

Alyssa Scolari [20:27]:

Well, I was just going to say to myself, look at that symbolism. I was going to record the season finale and I literally got something stuck in my throat. Look at that symbolism.

Drew Assini [20:43]:

Apparently I should have been shutting up, so that’s what I did.

Alyssa Scolari [20:51]:

Yeah. Not the right time. You aren’t quite ready for it. You were like, I pick the hospital.

Drew Assini [21:00]:

No, I didn’t pick the hospital. Life picked the hospital and I just tried not to freak out about it. I was happy though because I didn’t get shitty with the personnel there. A lot of times when I’m in physical pain, because I have some recurrent physical stuff, like I’ve gotten kidney stones in the past, and when I’m in physical pain, I get mean, and I don’t know, and just the less than my best. And I prefer not to treat people like that. So I was very proud of myself that despite the hours of anguishing pain, I wasn’t too cranky or [crosstalk 00:21:34].

Alyssa Scolari [21:33]:

Yeah. Because that sounds terrible. Although, as an aside, I can’t imagine an angry you. I can’t.

Drew Assini [21:39]:

Oh, well that there is such a thing. Yeah.

Alyssa Scolari [21:45]:

I just can’t fathom an angry Drew. It’s not-

Drew Assini [21:50]:

Well, it’s just another thing that’s been a part of the journey. Because as a younger being, I would cry a lot and I was sensitive a lot. And then being in the environment family system, I was not having necessarily healthy coping taught or modeled, then that sadness turns into anger. And so then as a teenager and in my early 20s, I had some white, hot rage that would come out of me. But then I also was there for what happened when the rage came through, and so that became part of the wisdom cycle to then help me start to move differently. But yeah, I still like to cuss and throw shit sometimes.

Alyssa Scolari [22:31]:

Sometimes you need to.

Drew Assini [22:31]:

Absolutely.

Alyssa Scolari [22:32]:

Yeah. That’s the point that I think that I’ve been battling with over the last I think maybe six months or so it was just the white, hot rage. That’s where it’s. At all the shit I couldn’t feel. And now, I mean, it is exactly, as you said, a white, hot rage. I’m much, much, much better now. But catch me three months ago, I was like … Well, it wasn’t good. It just wasn’t good. But it is what it is. I survived and I have a much better handle on it. I think I never let myself feel anger for largely all of my life. And then 20 plus years worth of anger just sort of hit me when I turned 29. It was like, hey. I was just a bear for months until I figured out how to just be with it.

Drew Assini [23:32]:

Yeah. Yeah. Beautifully. Yeah. Because some family systems, anger is not an emotion that’s allowed.

Alyssa Scolari [23:39]:

That was my family. Yeah. I mean, my dad was the rager, so it’s like, he’s angry so none of us were allowed to be angry. So yeah. Yeah. Even that though in itself, it’s a beautiful experience. Not in the moment, but to be able to look back on it and be like, I was there and now I see that rage and I feel it, yeah, sometimes I get mad and throw shit, but not the uncontrolled rage I used to have just a few months ago.

Drew Assini [24:14]:

That’s beautiful. And then when we don’t have the shame and the judgment on the backend, it doesn’t keep that cycle spinning. Like you said, if I can get angry, and maybe it’s not the best thing, but I don’t beat myself up, I don’t judge myself, I don’t shame, then there’s an opportunity for something new. It feels like shame and guilt and judgment are things that really just keep funkiness in a spiral.

Alyssa Scolari [24:44]:

They keep you stuck. Yeah. They’re the defenses that keep you from healing. They’re the defenses that keep you from feeling the shit that you really need to be feeling. Absolutely. That’s another thing is I feel like I’ve really kicked shame, not so much judgment, working on that one, but shame to the curb, where I’m just like, yeah, no, I threw some shit last night. It is what it is.

Drew Assini [25:09]:

Nice.

Alyssa Scolari [25:10]:

I’m not in jail, nobody’s dead. And you know what? I didn’t hurt myself. Whereas before, when I had mismanaged rage or rage that I was always taught not to feel, well, what was I doing? I was hurting myself. I was cutting myself. I was taking it out on myself. I stopped doing that. And when I stopped doing that, then I started to really feel the rage. But you know what? I would have rather go through that to get to a point where I no longer feel like I have to cut myself or I no longer feel suicidal because I’m angry.

Drew Assini [25:10]:

It’s where it’s all about.

Alyssa Scolari [25:44]:

It’s a good place to be.

Drew Assini [25:46]:

Hell yes.

Alyssa Scolari [25:50]:

So are you still working with people?

Drew Assini [25:55]:

Yeah.

Alyssa Scolari [25:56]:

Okay. So you still have, it’s Helping Folks Remember?

Drew Assini [26:03]:

Yes, ma’am.

Alyssa Scolari [26:03]:

My favorite. That’s the best website ever.

Drew Assini [26:10]:

I just tried to make it as accessible from as many approaches as possible.

Alyssa Scolari [26:16]:

I mean, it is. It’s perfect. It’s perfectly Drew.

Drew Assini [26:21]:

And that’s been part of my struggle is, okay, what am I? What’s the title or the label? Am I a counselor, am I a coach, am I a teacher, am I a this or that or the other? And then the other thing that’s been challenging is, okay, what do I actually do? And what I’ve discovered recently is that part of the difficulty for me is that I actually do different things with different people. So some folks I can do almost a reading with them where they show up and it’s like, all right, just tell me stuff and I’m going to give you insights into yourself and then you can go have fun with that and we’re done. It’s just a one-off. But then with other folks, I might be support through a certain experience, through a certain time in their life. And then for other folks, I’m literally taking them step by step and introducing them to themselves and teaching them how to ground in a more mindful, more kind of aware experience. Yeah, so it’s always been tough. I see these coaches and counselors on the interwebs and they’re like, you have to brand yourself and come up with a fancy label and a logo and this is what I do.

Alyssa Scolari [26:21]:

So much pressure.

Drew Assini [27:31]:

Yeah. And it’s like, well, shit. I do a couple of different things.

Alyssa Scolari [27:34]:

Right. It depends. It depends on the energy that’s between you and that person.

Drew Assini [27:41]:

100%.

Alyssa Scolari [27:41]:

The interaction. It totally depends. But I love that because I think that makes you more versatile and I think it’s also about self-preservation. You’re able to honor what feels right for you, which is good. It’s very hard, I think, for some therapists who feel like they have to be mainstream, like I’m CBT. Well, what if you have something that doesn’t feel like it’s the CBT type of case? You’re able to honor that. So right. Whether it’s spiritual guide, coach, facilitator, whatever it is, it works and it’s beautiful.

Drew Assini [28:24]:

Yeah. It is cool to settle more into just a self-acceptance, where it’s like, oh, okay. This is sort of what I am. Not clearly defined because it’s all fluid.

Alyssa Scolari [28:38]:

It’s all fluid. It could change tomorrow.

Drew Assini [28:42]:

But I feel like I spent a lot of time in the past trying to invest in being something a certain way so that it was more digestible or receivable for others, and that’s just never felt authentic. And so it’s like, yeah, here I am. I do what I do. If you want to hang out, let’s go. I’m pretty decent at being able to point at some things or supports and stuff. And if we vibe, then we vibe. Yeah, I mean, I even think back to the private practice days where it was like, especially if you’re accepting insurance, it’s like you have to do a billion sessions a particular way with certain documentation in order to get a couple of monies, and just that whole grind. Yeah. It’s just like, nah, no thanks. I’m good on that.

Alyssa Scolari [29:34]:

That grind is yeah, no, it’s not something I could ever … I mean, I don’t take insurance for that reason because I need that freedom and flexibility for my own sake. And I don’t want to have to see 95 people because you do all this work. It’s the grind for sometimes I think can be very little money and then you end up having to see lots and lots of people to kind of make ends meet, and then you just burn out. To be at the hands of insurance companies is not a good feeling.

Drew Assini [30:14]:

Yeah. Yeah. I always liked the idea of doing it private pay and then like, hey, we can charge you your copay rate so you feel like you’re getting whatever, but I don’t want to deal with all the paperwork.

Alyssa Scolari [30:28]:

Right. It’s way too much work. It’s way too much work and it makes the process, I think, less experiential because it’s just more about, sign this thing and I got to sign that thing and I got to submit this thing and I got to call this company. Then you feel like an admin. I’m like, I didn’t sign up for this shit.

Drew Assini [30:48]:

Right. I got to hire an administrative assistant or a clerical guy.

Alyssa Scolari [30:52]:

Right. I can’t do this shit.

Drew Assini [30:56]:

The coolest work that I feel like that I’ve gotten involved in is when folks were willing to put a couple monies down ahead of time. And I don’t usually have a number for it, but I’ve just been like, all right. What’s the number that’ll keep you honest? And put all that down and now we’re going to work together for a period of time. Yeah. Because the monies is one level. But the way our current society works is if I invest a certain amount of money, I’m going to invest also some effort and some attention along with that.

Alyssa Scolari [31:29]:

Exactly.

Drew Assini [31:32]:

And I’m looking for people who want to invest time and effort and energy. And when shit starts to get weird or the feelings start to get uncomfortable, are you going to be willing to lean into that, because that’s where the healing is going to happen. And if you’re only paying 25 bucks and you can just write it off, that’s when a lot of people disappear from the process too.

Alyssa Scolari [31:51]:

Right. People aren’t nearly as committed.

Drew Assini [31:55]:

Yeah. They go find somebody else who promises them 100% self acceptance in 20 days with no bad feelings. That’s total horseshit.

Alyssa Scolari [32:05]:

Right. They dive into a game, a fucking board game of Candy Land, and they’re just like, here we go.

Drew Assini [32:13]:

But I mean, yeah, I guess I get it too, because if I’m already struggling, I don’t want to struggle anymore. I want a happy ending promised with a bow tied on it. But the reality of healing is that we’re going to get to a good place, but we got to do some work. We’ve got to feel some stuff and go through some stuff.

Alyssa Scolari [32:36]:

Right. We’re not just putting a bandaid over this. We’re going to rip out the core, we’re getting to the source of the infection and we’re treating it. And it gets ugly before it gets better. It gets way worse before it gets better sometimes. But the better is, it’s incredible. It’s a much more fulfilling life.

Drew Assini [33:00]:

Which is why I feel like rushing folks to be ready for stuff, whether it’s the healing, forgiveness or whatever, it’s going to take what it’s going to take and that’s going to be as much time or as much energy and as much pain as each of us individually needs. But then when we’re ready, we’ll bring it and then we’ll be able to really honor our goal and our intention.

Alyssa Scolari [33:24]:

Absolutely. I often get people that ask me the question of, well, how many sessions do you do? And I don’t have an answer to that. The answer to that question could change, honestly, every hour. It depends. It all depends.

Drew Assini [33:43]:

Even at residential, the guys would come in, and I was working with mostly men’s population, they would come in and they’re like, “All right, how long am I going to be here?” And I’m like, “Do you just want to check boxes on a calendar or do you want to do the work?”

Alyssa Scolari [33:55]:

Exactly.

Drew Assini [33:55]:

“Because the work has no timeline. And it could be three weeks, it could be four weeks, it could be eight weeks. But if you’re here to do the work, the time is totally secondary.”

Alyssa Scolari [34:06]:

Right. That’s the least important thing here is the amount of time. It’s the fact that this is what you’re doing. That is the most important thing is just be here. Don’t be worried about an end date to this because you’ll get there. I think that goes back to, I think, the major theme of this discussion, which is what we were talking about earlier is maybe reprioritizing, maybe turning down the noise in your head a little bit or shifting it because I think that’s a lot of people in their head. All right. How long is this going to take? All right. I know I’m going to be back on May 24th and then I’ll make sure that I contact so-and-so, let them know I’m going to be back. You know what I mean? It’s like, all right. Let’s take that and let’s put that on the back burner. Let’s go grab your heart, your gut, and let’s bring them up to the forefront here.

Drew Assini [34:56]:

Nice.

Alyssa Scolari [34:58]:

So yeah, no, I hear ya. I hear ya. Well, I’m so happy for you. I can’t wait to see what the journey brings you. You’re home now. I feel like there’s even been so much change in the last six months. It’s been awesome to hear about your experiences. I can’t wait to see where you’re at when I talk to you next.

Drew Assini [35:21]:

Yeah. I’ll try to be somewhere else fancy or exotic.

Alyssa Scolari [35:25]:

Somewhere fancy shmancy.

Drew Assini [35:27]:

Yeah. I can’t promise.

Alyssa Scolari [35:29]:

I’m going to request under a waterfall somewhere.

Drew Assini [35:34]:

All right. It might make for poor audio quality though when we do the call.

Alyssa Scolari [35:41]:

You’re right. I didn’t think that one through. You could just be petting a tiger in a jungle somewhere. I’d prefer that.

Drew Assini [35:52]:

I’m open.

Alyssa Scolari [35:55]:

So thank you so, so much for coming on. Of course, for the listeners out there, I’m going to link Drew’s a website so you can check him out. Helping Folks Remember. Of course, there’s also his podcast, which is The Driveabout Podcast, which is good. It’s, what do you call them? Drewisms. You call them all types of things.

Drew Assini [35:55]:

I don’t call them that. Other people-

Alyssa Scolari [36:18]:

I think I made that up. I think I made that up.

Drew Assini [36:24]:

I just call them things I say.

Alyssa Scolari [36:29]:

I have coined them Drewisms.

Drew Assini [36:29]:

Nice.

Alyssa Scolari [36:33]:

So I will link all of that. Thank you kindly.

Drew Assini [36:39]:

Yeah, this was fun. Thanks. Yeah. I look forward to chatting again whenever we do it again.

Alyssa Scolari [36:47]:

I know. Me too. Me too.

Thanks for listening, everyone. For more information, please head over to lightaftertrauma.com or you can also follow us on social media. On Instagram we are @lightaftertrauma and on Twitter it is @lightafterpod. Lastly, please head over to at patreon.com/lightaftertrauma to support our show. We are asking for $5 a month, which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks. So please head on over. Again, that’s patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. Thank you, and we appreciate your support.

[Singing].