We don’t always want to hear that recovery from depression can take a long time. Some days, the pain feels unbearable and we want ways to get more immediate relief. If you feel that way, then this episode is for you! This week Alyssa sits down with Zack S. Rutledge, the author of The Official Depression Relief Playbook: Real-Life Strategies From a Guy Who Has Lived It. Tune in to hear Zack share about his own battle with depression as well as his inspiration to write a book. He provides some highly useful skills from his book that we can all use to get more immediate relief to what can feel like a long-term mental health battle.

Find Zack’s Book Here
Zack’s email: zacksrutledge@gmail.com

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Transcript:

 

Alyssa Scolari [00:18]:

Hello friends. Welcome back to another episode of the Light After Trauma podcast. I’m your host, Alyssa Scolari. Just taking a deep breath. I encourage you to take a deep breath with me. It is Friday, or at least it is Friday as I am recording this. When this comes out, it will be a Tuesday, but summer feels like it is upon us and life feels, it feels good. Even in the places that don’t feel so good, it feels manageable. It has been a long time in locked down, and it’s really adjusting to a new normal. I know people are starting to freak out a little bit about what that means and what that will look like. Right now I’m just riding the wave, which is very nice. I hope that you are doing your best to ride the wave as well, because there’s definitely going to be an adjustment period. Just trying to get back to a new normal. I’m not sure if we can ever go back to normal. I think it’s just going to be a new normal.

So if you are enjoying the new found freedom that we have. I’m so happy for you. I’m enjoying it too. Today, we have with us a special guest Zack S. Rutledge. Zack is an ACE Certified Personal Trainer, an ACE Certified Fitness Nutrition Specialist, and a Certified Brain Health Trainer through The Functional Aging Institute. He has a black belt in karate and has practiced yoga for almost a decade, finishing up his Yoga Alliance Teacher Certification in August of 2021. Just in a couple months. That’s awesome. He holds an MA from American University in Washington, DC, and starts his Licensed Professional Counselor program in January 2022.

I’m really excited. One of the things that Zach did not mention is that he has a book out. I was so honored to be able to read the book and to go through it, because it’s awesome. It’s an incredible book and we are going to dive into it today. He really talks about ways to tackle depression. So let’s just get right into it. All right. So hello, Zach. Welcome. How are you?

Zack Rutledge [02:58]:

I’m doing well. Thank you so, so much for having me.

Alyssa Scolari [03:01]:

I’m so excited that… I’m so happy for you to be here. I was just saying as I was recording, your introduction that it’s this book is really, really important. I know we’re going to talk about depression, and you did not mention the book in your bio. So I threw that in there. I’m like, oh, and there’s also this… On top of all that he’s doing, there’s also this incredible book, it is the the Depression Relief Playbook.

Zack Rutledge [03:34]:

That’s it.

Alyssa Scolari [03:36]:

So, oh, where do we even start? All right. So I think my first question that I have for you is like, how did you even develop a passion for this? How did you get to where you are now? I know you talk about it a little bit in the book, but if you could expand on it on here.

Zack Rutledge [03:52]:

Okay. So I will give the very abbreviated version of the first part of my story, so I can get to this second part. So what happened was, as a kid I went through some, I guess they could be called chemical depression issues, and we’ll get more into that later. I’m sure. Because I had a very stable, loving childhood. It was great. But only in hindsight I noticed that there were some issues going on. So when I was 18, my best friend was killed, and then I went through a very deep depression. I promise I’ll keep this part brief. Then what happened was, so how I got into, I guess helping people was I ended up becoming a personal trainer around the time I graduated from college. I graduated from college late because not extremely late, I was 26. But I graduated late because of some of my depression issues, and I was in a pretty serious place.

So I got this personal trainer thing. It really, it was almost an ego thing. I was just looking for another thing to kind of fill that void, right? It was part of my journey as I say, building myself back up brick by brick. Then when I started actually working with clients, that was when the fire was lit, so to speak, and I just loved it. So I ended up, I mean, I had a regular full-time job, but I was doing that on the side. Then I said, “Hey, you know what, I really would like to expand on this.” I became a fitness nutrition specialist.

Again, the brief version is when I was working with clients with their nutrition issues, we weren’t talking about nutrition. They were not bringing that up. They knew what to eat and they knew what not to eat, I mean, I would say 80% of the time. It was a lot of deep stuff and I wanted to work with them. I did what I could. That was what one of the things that ultimately led me to going, I can’t believe I’m doing this to myself, going back for the second master’s degree to become a therapist. So yeah, that’s the very abbreviated version. Yeah.

Alyssa Scolari [06:12]:

Yeah. So it’s like you want it to be a personal trainer to be able to help people, right? But then as you’re talking to people, you’re realizing that the nutritional problems are so much deeper than that surface level like, I don’t know what to eat type thing, because that’s really not the problem. You ended up talking to people about the stressors in their life, and the other things that are going on. That was sort of when it clicked for you that’s like oh, I actually really want to be able to help people in this way.

Zack Rutledge [06:41]:

Yeah. Yeah. It’s not just the nutrition stuff, of course, it pops in when I’m training people. Stuff pops up and it just turned into my primary passion, as opposed to my “side gig.” I want it to make a healing, I guess, in a way my main thing.

Alyssa Scolari [06:59]:

Yeah. I love it. I love that, and then where did the inspiration to write this book come into play?

Zack Rutledge [07:09]:

So it happened, I put the book together because of COVID. So when I was in grad school, the first time I went for film, and I was doing the training on the side, but I was concentrating on film. At that point, I was a few years out of my deep depression, and I had people reaching out to me saying that they were extremely depressed. Because they knew my past and they wanted to know tips and tricks, and things that I did. So I would end up sending them emails, because I would tell them and they would forget. So I’d send these emails to them, or Facebook messages, or whatever. Then when COVID hit, the same thing kind of happened, I had a lot of people reaching out to me saying, “Hey, I’m having a really tough time.”

Because one thing I noticed was a lot of, let’s just say quirks, things like OCD, or depression, or what have you, was kind of spike during the COVID for a lot of people. It was a really stressful time, obviously. So people were reaching out to me again. So I just, I kind of said to myself, you know what, it’s just going to be easier for me to write a book and put this all together at one thing. Because I was constantly going back to all these old emails or thinking of new things. I said, you know what, yeah, let’s put this book together. Then I can get this out to just hand it out to anyone who asks. That was kind of honestly how it started, it was a very organic thing. Yeah.

Alyssa Scolari [08:32]:

I love that. Okay. Here’s what I love the most about your book is when people come into my office, or go into anybody’s office, or anybody who’s struggling with depression, right? A lot of times what we tell people, it’s not a quick fix, and I think that that’s true. It’s not a quick fix. But I, somebody like myself and like other people want a quick fix, right? And I think that’s-

Zack Rutledge [09:02]:

Yeah, of course.

Alyssa Scolari [09:03]:

Right. We all want a quick fix. I think that’s why a lot of people turn to a numbing out through drugs, alcohol, food, whatever. We want that instant gratification. The thing I love about the book, and that is even so evident in the title is that it gives you the quick fix. It’s like a quick fix feel to it where it’s like, yes, depression is kind of a long-term thing, but there are things that you can actively do. Concrete changes you can make in your life to help ease that depression. For somebody like me and so many others, when we have those bouts of depression, or we’re in a really bad way, we just need relief. The last thing we want to hear, especially when we’re at a point where we’re feeling suicidal, and we’re considering taking our own lives. It’s like, I need something and I need it now. I love that this book really, it covers all of that.

Zack Rutledge [10:01]:

Yeah. Thank you. First off, we should say it is short, because the last thing I wanted to do when I was in my deepest depression was to read 350 pages of something.

Alyssa Scolari [10:11]:

Who can do that, right, when you’re depressed?

Zack Rutledge [10:14]:

So I got a couple of ideas. It’s not going to happen. I couldn’t get through one television program. I couldn’t get through 30 minutes of a TV show when I was in my deepest, deepest bouts. So yeah. So what I did was I basically, like I said, when I built myself back up brick by brick, this took years and years and years. So what I wanted to do was get this book together. That was all of these little bricks in kind of in, like you said, it’s these actionable things you can do. Because what I want to do is speed this up for people. I want to save them a few years of their lives trying to sort out what works for them.

It’s like, these are the things that I really found, and it’s things that you can do. I think the hardest part for some people is actually getting up to do some of the things, which is why I have those first couple chapters on mindset. Well, I mean, I guess just my intro is just relating to people. Letting them know I understand what this is like. I totally get where you’re coming from, but if you can just turn that little bit of a switch, just do one little thing, and then do one little next thing. You’re going to slowly pull yourself out. Even if we don’t get you to a perfect 10 human in that day, if we can get you from a two to a six or seven, that’s a win, right? So yeah, I wanted to make it, thank you for pointing that out. I wanted to make it as actionable as possible. Yeah.

Yes. I think you’re exactly right. That is also, what’s so important is even the length, right? It’s concise. It’s very clear. It’s very relatable. I mean, it’s truly a gift to people who are in the trenches, as some of my clients like to tell me. Sometimes my clients coming in and they’re like, man, I’m really in the trenches this week. It’s a great book for when you really are in the trenches. It’s like, all right, this book is like, it’s a comfort in itself. Because it’s like, listen, you don’t have to figure out all of this today, open up this book. I’m going to tell you one little tiny thing that you can do to make your life a little bit better. I love that.

Then, stack them, that’s the important thing. That’s another important thing. Stack them.

Alyssa Scolari [10:14]:

Stack them or by brick.

Zack Rutledge [12:30]:

Yeah. Thank you so much, again for saying that. I mean, I should say I’m just completely honored to be here, right? Because this is really cool for me to be talking to somebody like you. I kept it short because I was thinking, what would I read as a 20-year-old, right? I want to say this the right way. Because it’s not bragging, right? Because in no way am I a perfect person. Okay. It’s in no way. But one of the really nice things somebody said to me was that, “This is a really good book. Even for people who aren’t depressed,” and I was like, “Oh, thanks.” “For people who are just looking to improve their lives,” I was like, “Oh wow. That’s really nice. Thank you so much.”

Because a lot of times I joke that I wrote this book for the worst possible sales. I wrote this for an audience that is not going to go out and buy a book, right? They’re not going to seek out for help. So in a way I kind of wrote it as a gift, but I didn’t want it to seem like gimmicky. I didn’t want to say, “Hey, buy this for somebody,” because they didn’t want to seem like a sales grab type thing. But in a way it really was written as a gift to, because I know it’s tough to reach out for help sometimes.

Alyssa Scolari [13:50]:

It’s so tough. It’s so so tough. Actually, I love what you said about… I have so many questions on my mind and there are so many things I want to ask you.

Zack Rutledge [14:00]:

I’m here.

Alyssa Scolari [14:01]:

My brain is going a mile a minute, but that actually, it just clicked for me to write. This is a book that is great for somebody even who isn’t struggling with depression, because it’s almost like it’s just, it’s preventative. This is to me, this is a book truly… It’s a genuine wellness book and listen, for the listeners out there, you all know how I feel about wellness and the wellness industry, and how fraudulent it is. I know we’ve talked about this, but this is a genuine wellness book. One that really is one size fits all for all people.

So I just want to go back to something that you touched on, honestly 10 minutes ago at this point. But you started to talk about depression and the different types of depression. One that you talked about in the book that I really would like for you to expand on. Because I’m interested to hear your perspective on this is, you said that a lot of professionals tend to miss this idea that depression is more of a feeling rather than a result of something that has happened in your life specifically. Can you expand a little bit more on that, your viewpoint on the different types of depression?

Zack Rutledge [15:20]:

Sure. Yeah. So, and I’m sure you know this, and it absolutely happened in my life. Depression comes in different flavors, I call it. So I mean, and they can come from different… It can come from different causes. So some people are dysthymic, right? So for people who are listening, it’s that low level, and then when something traumatic happens, you dip down into this deep trench. Which I think may have described to me, there could be things purely brought on by traumatic events, like a PTSD type depression. So there are different flavors. Interestingly, and again, I know you know this, but for your listeners, a lot of people are saying, treating gut health is a good way to work on your depression. They’re giving probiotics, because you actually create more serotonin in your gut than you do your brain. Now, I say-

Alyssa Scolari [16:16]:

Yes. Thank you for saying that. Nobody has ever said this on the podcast before, and I am enamored. Can you please repeat that? Everybody listen to this loud and clear. Say that again.

Zack Rutledge [16:27]:

Okay. So I would argue that this is another reason to keep a good diet, right? That you create more serotonin in your gut than you do in your brain. So some people are actually giving depressed people probiotics in trying to get those bacteria back in a good balance. So yeah. So let’s just say, now I personally believe that that could be the case, sometimes. I don’t think that’s the catch-all. I don’t think there is a catch-all.

Alyssa Scolari [17:01]:

Yes.

Zack Rutledge [17:02]:

In that token… So that being said, right? So let’s just say, if I had a traumatic event, giving me probiotics wouldn’t be much of a help, right? So that’s why I call it the D-Day approach. So we come at it from every angle. So whether it’s a gut issue or it’s a brain issue, because I even talk about medication in there. Whether it’s a traumatic issue, I talk about therapy in there, right? We’re trying to come at it with everything, right?. So that’s kind of treating. So if we don’t know exactly what’s off, and you’re teaming up with somebody like you, like an expert. You’re eating the right things, and you’re putting these things together. You’re going to have a… I personally think you’re going to have a much greater chance of success rather than relying on one silver bullet, right? Because there’s no one cause.

Alyssa Scolari [18:01]:

I couldn’t agree with you more. I also agree that it’s definitely not, that is not one size fits all where it is different for everybody. But when we take what you have coined as, right, the D-Day approach, and we attack it from all angles. You’re going to find what’s going on and you’re going to be able to heal. I know for me, I think my depression, it was a result of definitely PTSD, but over the last couple of months, and this is also part of why I’m so excited to talk to you about this stuff, is because I have had my own journey with realizing that what was going on in my gut was causing my depression. It took me a long time to get there, to even realize that until I started to learn that the majority of serotonin is actually like me, made in your gut.

I went to a functional medicine doc, and she was able to help me identify which foods my body truly was hating. After cutting out these foods, giving my body the time and the space to heal, taking the appropriate supplements. I am in a better head space than I have ever been in my entire life. I feel like I see the world so much differently, because I cut out certain things and my gut is truly healthy. I used to sleep… I used to get 10 hours of sleep at night, and then I would wake up and not have the energy to walk downstairs.

Zack Rutledge [19:49]:

Wow.

Alyssa Scolari [19:49]:

I’m 29. Why am I acting like I’m 150? The change in what I was eating changed all of that. When I say change, just to be clear, I am not talking about being restrictive. That is not what I’m talking about here. I’m talking about, for me specifically, I had food allergies that I was truly unaware of dairy, gluten, garlic, honestly, everything.

Zack Rutledge [20:22]:

Which is really common, right?

Alyssa Scolari [20:24]:

So common, and so many people don’t know it.

Zack Rutledge [20:27]:

Yeah. Yeah. I think I mentioned in the book too getting an allergy test because really, really helpful. I didn’t need the allergy test because I know now, I mean, it’s, it’s very apparent. I think my body has become more sensitive to, it’s funny, like certain dairies. A glass of milk will destroy me, but I can have butter or things like that. But it’s funny, right? But yeah. Yeah. I would bet a lot of people, well, look, it’s true. A lot of people have a lot of intolerances.

Alyssa Scolari [20:57]:

Yeah.

Zack Rutledge [20:57]:

It’s not doing your body any favors. Yeah.

Alyssa Scolari [21:00]:

Yep, absolutely. So yes, you touch on all the different types of depression. So if you could give a synopsis of, can you walk us through the book? So you break down your story, you talk about depression, you go into the mindset, and then can you break down more of it from there?

Zack Rutledge [21:26]:

Sure. Well, let me say first, because the mindset’s kind of like a weird thing to talk about. Just because it’s not concrete, it’s not concrete steps. If anybody wants that chapter, just shoot me an email and I’ll send them that chapter, Because we’re not going to talk, go to into depth on that today, because it’s just a weird thing to talk about. So shoot me an email. I’ll send you that chapter. All right.

Alyssa Scolari [21:49]:

I’ll put your email in the show notes so that people have easy access to be able to reach out.

Zack Rutledge [21:55]:

Cool. Thank you so much. So anyway, as far as building back up brick by brick, like you said, there’s the intro, there’s the mindset, which is just to kind of light that fire under you is that relating to you. It’s the getting you into gear, coming at us with the right approach, with the right intentions. So I like to start with the physical aspect. Okay. This isn’t to look like a bodybuilder, this is getting your physical structure in order. I like it because it’s the most concrete thing in the book, and you tend to… Oh, well, just like you said, you tend to notice things pretty quickly, right? If you get your… I think I have it in two separate chapters, but I have the fitness and nutrition. But if you get that dialed in first, that’s going to kind of, I’m trying not to make too many battle references, but it’s going to simplify the battlefield. I hate that.

Alyssa Scolari [22:57]:

Listen. I love it. I’m here for it.

Zack Rutledge [23:01]:

I regret calling it the D-Day approach, but that’s just what pops to mind. But anyway, yeah you’re just-

Alyssa Scolari [23:05]:

I think that’s the perfect… It’s the perfect Analogy.

Zack Rutledge [23:09]:

Okay.

Alyssa Scolari [23:10]:

I think it’s perfect.

Zack Rutledge [23:11]:

Okay, great. We’ll go with it. So yeah. So that’s the first place I like to start. So we go with the fitness, we go with the diet, and then I actually have a section on supplements in there. Of Course, I have all the disclaimers, but it’s good to repeat this. You always have to check in with your primary care physician, because we don’t want any of these things interacting with anything you take, right? So one of my absolute favorites is turmeric, and I mentioned this in the book, taking a capsule of turmeric is like eating a thousand turmeric roots, right? So you’re better off with the capsule. I know people cook with it, but the capsules are great, but you also want to have a little bit of black pepper in that capsule. About half of the capsules you find will have a little bit of black pepper in there, and if there’s not, just put a little pepper on your food when you take the capsule. Because what happens is, that black pepper increases the bioavailability of that turmeric, the curcumin and then your body-

Alyssa Scolari [24:10]:

That’s what it’s called, right? [crosstalk 00:24:12].

Zack Rutledge [24:12]:

It can be called… Yeah. You’ll see it as either turmeric, curcumin, curcuminoids, it’s all the same thing, right?

Alyssa Scolari [24:18]:

Yeah.

Zack Rutledge [24:19]:

It increases that bioavailability so you can absorb it way easier. Otherwise, it just passes through your system, not all of it, but a good portion of it. So yeah, I go into stuff like that, and like my favorite supplements. One of the reasons I really like turmeric is because it helps with inflammation. One of the theories on depression is that inflammation can really contribute to it, right? So, which is another reason, like you were just saying, getting the foods that don’t agree with you sorted out, right?

Alyssa Scolari [24:50]:

Yeah.

Zack Rutledge [24:52]:

So I run through a bunch of different things, working on your relationships, and working on the right media. I go through that, there’s actually a chapter in that. Then, I essentially ended with medication. I think there may be a chapter after that, but the medication I ended on, because that was my last step. Now, it took me years, and years, and years, but I’m glad I did it that way, and this is why. I built myself up, and I built up so many practices from my martial arts, like my meditation, and yoga, and the diet, and the working out, like you’ve said. I worked on everything to, I sharpen the sword as much as I possibly could.

Then, I felt, okay, I still need something else. I still need something else, because at 8:00 at night, it was always 8:00 at night, things would spiral out. I’d be good all day, good all day, and then 8:00 at night, I don’t know if it was a testosterone drop thing, because men’s testosterone tends to drop later at night. I don’t know what it was, but I needed that extra boost to get me the rest of the way. Yeah. So we talk about a lot of things. Sorry. I talk so much. You can just cut me off.

Alyssa Scolari [26:03]:

No. You are absolutely fine. I’m thinking to myself, I know that the nighttime, and especially for the trauma, any kind of trauma survivors or anyone who has been through any type of traumatic loss. The nighttime is always the hardest, it’s just the absolute hardest. So I’m wondering when you say, I spiraled out, and if this is too personal of a question, please feel free to tell me to back off and I will.

Zack Rutledge [26:35]:

No. You can’t offend me. You can ask me anything you want.

Alyssa Scolari [26:41]:

What did that look like for you? What did spiraling out look like for you? Because like you said, depression looks a little bit different on everybody. So what did that look like for you?

Zack Rutledge [26:50]:

So when I say that, when the 8:00 PM would get a little darker I’d spiral out, I should mention that. By that point, I was way, way, way better than I was when I was 19, and really struggling all day and then my nights would be way worse. So I’m just saying, things would turn negative. I was letting my brain run my mind, is kind of the way it felt. My thoughts would just turn dark. I would start looking at the negative sides of everything. I was fixating on things like death, I was fixating on these things that really were not serving anyone, with note and just seeing the dark side of everything. But I was still much, much, much better, it was just that I was dipping down lower than I should have.

I’m on an SNRI, which was actually, I don’t talk about it in the book, I don’t think. It wasn’t just the death of my friend that had me spiral out of control when depression was really deep. I actually dealt with some chronic pain issues. So the SNRI really helped with the nerve pain. They actually give it to a lot of people with fibromyalgia, for their nerve pain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it just topped it off. It felt, okay, now everything’s a lot easier. Yeah.

Alyssa Scolari [28:13]:

That’s so important because so many people, I think beat themselves up when they do “everything” that you’re supposed to do to help aid with their symptoms. But still kind of like you said, when that sun goes down or when it turns 8:00, it still just feels unmanageable. It’s just, people don’t have to suffer. I love this idea and this phrase, I sure as hell did not coin it, but I’ve been reading on that line. People are making t-shirts now that’s like, if your brain can’t make it, store-bought is fine. I just love that, store-bought, serotonin, it’s fine. An SSRI and SNRI. It is totally fine. So that’s the other thing that’s fantastic is that you’re so open about all of the possibilities, right? That it is a possibility to do all these things and still need to take medication, and that that is okay.

Zack Rutledge [29:29]:

Yeah. Well, I mean, I wasn’t always open about it. I had to be, to be honest. But yeah, because there was a lot of hesitancy and I wanted to be clear about that, and I wanted to clear up a lot of the myths too. Because there’s a lot of misinformation out there. Yeah. So I’m hoping, well, of course, I’m hoping to read the book. People who read the book will read that chapter, but I’d hope people really take that one to heart too. Yeah.

Alyssa Scolari [29:59]:

Yeah. Yeah. Now, this book, so when you first hit your first major depressive episode, you said about like 19?

Zack Rutledge [29:59]:

18.

Alyssa Scolari [30:10]:

18, is this book, do you think that when you were 18, you would have really benefited from having a book like this?

Zack Rutledge [30:22]:

Yes.

Alyssa Scolari [30:23]:

Yeah.

Zack Rutledge [30:24]:

I was thinking… It was interesting thinking about myself at that age as I was writing this. Because I was like, what’s going to resonate with that person who’s in that deep of a hole, so to speak.

Alyssa Scolari [30:37]:

Yeah.

Zack Rutledge [30:38]:

Yeah. So it was interesting, but I mean, I wouldn’t have released her. I wouldn’t be doing podcasts like this, if I didn’t believe in it so much, right? So yeah. Yeah. I really do believe it. Yeah.

Alyssa Scolari [30:54]:

Yeah. I asked that question because I bet, as I was going through the book, I think one of the things that I was thinking to myself is, how healing this must have been for you. Now that I’m talking to you, I’m kind of realizing it’s almost like you’re giving like 18-year-old you what you needed as well through writing this book, which I think is so powerful.

Zack Rutledge [31:18]:

Yeah. Thanks. To be honest, it was fun. I enjoyed it. It was just a good time because you know that eventually somebody is going to read the thing. So even if it helps two people, whatever. Somebody who’s going to read it. So it was actually really fun to do it.

Alyssa Scolari [31:35]:

Yes. You’re helping more than just two people, right? Even though, if two people was all you help, that’s still an incredible and a job well done. But before we started recording, let’s have this bragging moment. I’m totally going to bring this back up. Tell me the Canada story.

Zack Rutledge [31:56]:

So I actually had a psychologist reach out to me today. She’s from Canada. She said that she loves the books so much that she’s actually recommending it to her patients, to her clients. So yeah, pretty cool. Pretty cool.

Alyssa Scolari [32:13]:

It’s so cool.

Zack Rutledge [32:15]:

Yeah.

Alyssa Scolari [32:17]:

I’m so happy for you. I’m so excited. This book it’s almost… You can tell it’s like, you talk about it almost it was effortless, and it seems maybe it’s just years of you’ve been doing all this work for all these years, and now it just came out of you on paper.

Zack Rutledge [32:38]:

Yeah. Essentially condensed the best bits. Yeah.

Alyssa Scolari [32:42]:

Yeah. Yeah. So what is next for you? What’s next for you? You’ve got a book out. You’ve got people in other countries contacting you. Where are we going next?

Zack Rutledge [32:55]:

So I told you that the personal training, all that was my part-time job. I didn’t say my regular full-time job was video production. I went to grad school for film. I’m actually shooting my first full length film in October. No, no, I’m sorry, August. So yeah, I’m shooting a movie in August and then-

Alyssa Scolari [33:15]:

That’s so cool.

Zack Rutledge [33:16]:

Yeah. Pretty exciting. Actually, you’re not too far from me. If you want to be an extra. If you want to read a couple of lines, I can have you.

Alyssa Scolari [33:24]:

Hello. My dream come true. Let me know, day, time. I will be there with bells on.

Zack Rutledge [33:30]:

Awesome. We’re shooting in the Princeton area. I’m sure you know where that is. So anyway-

Alyssa Scolari [33:34]:

Yes. That’s like my favorite part of New Jersey.

Zack Rutledge [33:36]:

Cool. We’ll talk about that after we record.

Alyssa Scolari [33:39]:

Yes.

Zack Rutledge [33:39]:

But yeah, so I’m shooting this movie, and then it’s really… Well, I finished up my yoga teacher training in August, and I get ready for grad school in January. Yeah. Start my LPC. Yeah.

Alyssa Scolari [33:55]:

Then you, ultimately the goal for you is to become, you want to become a therapist and you want to be able to help people. Is there a specific niche of people that you want to help? Or is it kind of, well, I’m just going step by step, day by day seeing where life takes me type of thing?

Zack Rutledge [34:13]:

Well, as of right now, I think anxiety and depression would be a nice fit. That just feels natural to me, and that’s kind of where my passion is right now, of course with the book and everything. But we’ll see how it goes, we’ll see.

Alyssa Scolari [34:24]:

Yeah. Yeah. You never know. You never know where you could end up. I know, I sure as hell did not seen myself ending up where I am.

Zack Rutledge [34:35]:

Right. That’s what a lot of people tell me. They say that they’re surprised at where they ended up. So I’m expecting the unexpected. Yeah.

Alyssa Scolari [34:42]:

Yeah. Expect the unexpected, and it’s a beautiful thing. So where is your book sold? Where can people find it? Where can they buy it?

Zack Rutledge [34:54]:

Honestly, I did the laziest thing possible. It’s up on Amazon and it’s the only place you can get. I don’t have a big social media, it’s up on Amazon kind of doing the power of attraction thing, hoping that if the quality is there, people will find it. Yeah. So that’s it.

Alyssa Scolari [35:12]:

I love it. So I will grab that link, and then if people have any questions or they want to reach out to you, and they want to ask anything. They can just use the email that I will include in the show notes as well.

Zack Rutledge [35:24]:

Great. Thank you so much. Yeah. They’re more than welcome.

Alyssa Scolari [35:26]:

Perfect. I will put the link to your book and your email in the show notes for the listeners. To the lovely and wonderful listeners out there, I am also going to be posting the link to this book in the Light After Trauma Facebook group. Because I know a lot of the folks in that group are always asking for new books and great reads. This is one of them. This truly, truly is one of them. It’s phenomenal. It is short. It’s concise. It’s clear. It’s relatable. So highly recommend. We’ll post that. If you are not in the Facebook group, what are you waiting for? Thank you so much, Zach, for coming on the show. It was truly an honor.

Zack Rutledge [36:11]:

No. Thank you. The honor is all mine, really. Thank you.

Alyssa Scolari [36:15]:

Of course. Thanks for listening everyone. For more information, please head over to lightaftertrauma.com or you can also follow us on social media, on Instagram we are @lightaftertrauma, and on Twitter it is @lightafterpod. Lastly, please head over to patreon.com/lightaftertrauma to support our show. We are asking for $5 a month, which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks. So please head on over, again that’s patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. Thank you, and we appreciate your support.

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