Episode 81: Imposter Syndrome is Keeping You from Living Your Best Life with Alyssa Scolari, LPC
Episode 81: Imposter Syndrome is Keeping You from Living Your Best Life with Alyssa Scolari, LPC
Imposter syndrome is the overwhelming feeling that we are phony or fraudulent in different areas of our lives. This psychological phenomenon causes us to attribute our successes or achievements to external circumstances rather than internal (i.e. “I only got a raise because my cousin is the boss”, “I only got an A on that test because the teacher likes me”). Imposter syndrome not only deprives us of self-love and validation, but it also stops us from having the confidence to achieve our future goals and dreams. Tune in to learn about ways to combat imposter syndrome!
Check out the Light After Trauma website for transcripts, other episodes, Alyssa’s guest appearances, and more at: www.lightaftertrauma.com
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Alyssa Scolari [00:23]:
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Light After Trauma podcast. I’m your host, Alyssa Scolari. We are back at it again, only this week is extra special. This is my first episode that I am recording post-surgery. So, I’m actually really happy because it’s been a while since I’ve recorded anything. I had surgery, as many of you know, on January 27th for endometriosis and, before my surgery, a couple months ago, I did an episode talking about my battle with endometriosis or maybe it was a couple of weeks ago. Couple weeks, couple months, a month, whatever but I had done an episode where I was explaining what I have been going through.
Alyssa Scolari [01:12]:
So, if you missed that episode, go check it out so that you are all caught up. And, I finally had my surgery, which is really exciting, I am recovering. I have been really trying to be intentional about not rushing my healing and yeah, it’s been good. I am going to do an episode updating everybody in more detail about what happened with the surgery, what they found, how my recovery was. I have a post op appointment with my surgeon on Friday, so I will have a little bit more information then and then I will be more healed and I will be in a better place to record an episode about that. I just wanted to give myself a few weeks to heal because it was both physically and emotionally draining.
Alyssa Scolari [02:12]:
So, that said, it’s been a really interesting week for me as I’ve been, really, just embracing the stillness and I’ve had a lot of time to think about the podcast and the direction the podcast is going. And I also had the pleasure of receiving an incredible email from a very dear listener, you know who you are. I was actually really having a bad day in my recovery, I was in a lot of pain and I was, I think, bored out of my mind. I don’t know if I was bored or depressed, honestly, maybe a little bit of both because I think that having that surgery just brought up a lot of things for me.
Alyssa Scolari [03:01]:
And so, I think I was definitely struggling with some depression, I was moping around the house and I was wishing that I could just get back to my life already. And, all of a sudden, I see this email pop through or this email came through of somebody who became a patron for the podcast which is so, so exciting, thank you so, so much. Having patrons makes this whole process so much easier and it allows me to do so much more because I’m having some type of funding for the podcast because everything right now, with the exception of the patrons, we do out of pocket so it’s very expensive.
Alyssa Scolari [03:42]:
I know, as I mentioned in the past and I’m not complaining, I am more than happy to be able to provide a free mental health resource to people out there who might, otherwise, not be able to afford mental health support but, sometimes, it can become a lot. So, having people who are able to support the podcast and give in whatever way that they can is so, so helpful and so exciting and it’s such an honor because I understand, especially in today’s world, with inflation being through the freaking roof, life is expensive, things are expensive, people are out of work because people are getting COVID so things are really, really hard. So, the fact that people would choose to donate any amount of money to the podcast is just extremely humbling for me and extremely encouraging and inspiring.
Alyssa Scolari [04:44]:
I don’t always get to interact with the people who listen to this podcast so I feel like I have a ton of friends, I know I have a ton of friends who are listening and who are supporting me but I don’t always hear from all of you which is fine, there’s no obligation to reach out to me but it is always special when people do and when people are able to give. It’s so validating that what I’m doing is actually helping people. So, I digress. This person, she became a patron for the podcast and then she, which by the way, if you’re not familiar with Patreon, you can go over into the show notes and find it. It’s basically just the site where people are able to donate however much money, either on a monthly basis or a one-time thing, to the podcast or, really, content creators of any kind.
Alyssa Scolari [05:43]:
So, this person then proceeded to send me an email and, in this beautifully written email, she had said that my podcast had helped her so much through her trauma recovery process to the point where she would often listen to this podcast when she would go to sleep at night and many of us trauma survivors know how difficult the nighttime can be. And she had said that she actually is now thinking of going back to school and is applying to schools to get her master’s degree in social work so that she can go on to help other people. And it was this incredibly humbling email and I read it and I started to cry. And, my husband read it, and then he started to cry. And also, side note, at the end of that email, she told me to not rush my healing which I also really needed to hear because I was definitely trying to rush my healing.
Alyssa Scolari [06:47]:
But after reading that my husband, David, was like, “I’m really, really proud of you. Look at the impact that you are able to have on other people.” And I remember thinking, I wonder if she has the wrong person, at first. My initial reaction was like, “Maybe she emailed the wrong person. Maybe she meant to email another podcaster.” Obviously, I know that that’s not the case, she very specifically was emailing me. But at the time, I was just like, “No, she can’t be. She can’t be talking about me.” And so, that brings me to the topic of today’s episode, honestly. So, thank you to that listener who sent me that email because you have inspired today’s episode which is all about impostor syndrome and you also have made me feel so loved and I really, really appreciate that.
Alyssa Scolari [07:56]:
So, we’re talking about impostor syndrome today which I know so many of us struggle with and I struggle with it, too. I don’t think that I struggle with it as much anymore, I definitely used to be much, much worse with it but, over time, I’ve definitely gotten much better with it. And impostor syndrome, it’s not a psychological disorder, so to speak, it’s not a mental health condition, so to speak. You’re not going to find impostor syndrome listed in the DSM which is, basically, the book of psychological disorders but it still is a psychological phenomenon. And, basically, at its simplest, impostor syndrome is that feeling that you’re a phony or a fraud or feeling like the only reason that you have the success that you have or the good fortune that you have is because of some external circumstance or some temporary thing.
Alyssa Scolari [09:08]:
Well, I basically only won this race because I had more time to train than someone else or, basically, I only got a raise because I’ve been here longer than anyone else. It’s like we’re always attributing a good thing to some external or temporary source rather than internal, rather than believing that we have this good fortune or this success because of who we are and because of our hard work. And, again, because of who we are, we are always deflecting. No, it’s definitely because of something else. It can’t possibly be because of me because I’m simply not good enough.
Alyssa Scolari [09:59]:
Now, as with most other mental health terms, impostor syndrome gets thrown around a lot and people make light of it but it actually can be quite debilitating. And just as an FYI, some of the information that I’m going to be sharing with you today, some is from just my own professional experience and personal experience with impostor syndrome but, the other information that I’m going to be sharing is from an article written by Valerie Young. And Valerie Young, basically, is this leading expert on impostor syndrome. She’s given it a TED talk, she has been really the expert in this area, been doing work in the area of impostor syndrome since the 1980s. So, I am, of course, going to link that article in the show notes so you can feel free to go and check it out. But basically, it can be very, very debilitating and there’s definitely some controversy on impostor syndrome which we’ll get into.
Alyssa Scolari [11:00]:
But impostor syndrome, at least for me, is something that, I realize, stood in the way of my success for a while, honestly. And I’m talking about success in my career, I’m talking about success in my relationship building, success in my love life, my friendships, my ability to set boundaries, everything. So, again, while we as a society, I think, really like to make light of what impostor syndrome is, it’s really a big, freaking deal, to be honest.
Alyssa Scolari [11:44]:
So, again, as I said, it is this idea that any success that we have really can’t be attributed to us as individuals and has to be attributed to some other external source. Now, this syndrome does affect both men and women and especially affects members in the non-binary community, LGBTQAI plus community. It tends to affect people in the LGBTQIA plus community and women, the female community more than men and there are some pretty obvious reasons which we’ll touch on a little bit.
Alyssa Scolari [12:31]:
But impostor syndrome does one of two things that are really, really debilitating. So, first, what it does is it tells you that your success has nothing to do with you personally. But then, where it becomes even more debilitating is that it tells you that because none of the success that you have had in your life so far is a result of you, that you are not going to be successful or be able to achieve your goals in the future and, therefore, stops you from pushing yourself to see what your potential is. This may look like you turning down a date if somebody asks you to go on a date because you are automatically assuming that it’s going to be a failure.
Alyssa Scolari [13:34]:
This might look like you not seizing a career opportunity that comes your way, this might look like you never following through with your dream to go to Fiji, to travel the world one day because you don’t believe that you have what it takes. This might look like you never trying or truly applying yourself in school because you have this fundamental belief, this core belief that you’re never going to be good enough or smart enough as the people around you, therefore, you’re not going to apply yourself because you are less than.
Alyssa Scolari [14:13]:
It shows up in our lives in so many ways and it does affect both children and adults. Children might not necessarily have words to be able to put to the impostor syndrome but they have it nonetheless. Now, impostor syndrome and trauma often go hand in hand. Hence, why we are talking about this on the Light After Trauma podcast. People who have been traumatized, specifically folks who have complex PTSD which, if you’re unfamiliar on the differences between standard PTSD and complex PTSD, please go back to the beginning of the podcast. I think episode, maybe, one or two or three, we really talked about the differences.
Alyssa Scolari [15:04]:
I believe it’s episode two on the podcast, we break down exactly what complex trauma is. And specifically for folks who have complex PTSD, we have endured an extensive amount of trauma and the neural pathways in our brains have been altered to believe that everything bad is our fault that, if good things happen, they are not going to last. Good things are very, very scary to us and we never attribute good things happening to us, we have to attribute it to some outside source.
Alyssa Scolari [15:41]:
So, those are some of the ways in which impostor syndrome can show up. For me, again, definitely affected me in all areas of my life. I think, certainly, with dating, I noticed this pattern of myself where I got to a point where I started to date men of a certain kind and not the healthy kind. And, if I were to go on a date with a man who actually was healthy and I could see myself getting into a relationship with, I was physically and emotionally unattracted to that person and I was actually quite scared of them. I felt much more familiar on men who were pretty dangerous.
Alyssa Scolari [16:35]:
I was very, very scared of men who are safe and I believed that it was because they were trying to trick me, honestly. I think I just had this belief that good men, decent human beings couldn’t want me. And, if they did want me, there had to be some external reason because I’m not a good person. Even though I might be coming off as a good person and a good partner and a good girlfriend, fundamentally, I’m not and everybody around me can see that, they can see that I’m a phony, they can see that I’m a fraud.
Alyssa Scolari [17:19]:
So, if there is a good man out there who was attracted to me, well, he must be a phony and a fraud as well and he must have some ulterior motive for why he’s being good to me and, therefore, I don’t want him. A twisted way of thinking, definitely maybe hard to follow but it made sense in my head and I would bet that there’s at least one person out there who’s listening to this that’s like, “Oh, yeah, no, that totally makes sense in my head, too.” And there was a very similar pattern with my friends, really.
Alyssa Scolari [17:50]:
I did the same thing with friendships which is why I didn’t always have the best friendships and, as a result, I don’t really have many friends to this day which I think I’m okay with because I just prefer to have smaller groups. A lot of my husband’s friends have become really close friends to me and they’re really amazing people but, I think, growing up, I just attracted people who weren’t the best of friends because that’s just what felt safer to me in some twisted way.
Alyssa Scolari [18:25]:
I felt like really good people could see right through me and could see that I was just a phony and a fraud. And, I think that with school, I have a bit more confidence with school, I was very successful in school always. I was at the top of my class, graduated the top of my class, was a straight A student and here’s the thing about that, though, is that I … I’m not bragging. I hate saying this because it sounds like I’m bragging but I’m not. I never had to study, never. The only times I ever really had to study were with subjects like math and maybe some sciences like physics and chemistry, not so much biology. But for the most part, even in my master’s program, I never had to study, I barely read the textbooks and I was a straight A student. And I had the hardest time admitting that I was … Am, I just said was right because I’m separating my past person from my present person. No, it’s all the same me.
Alyssa Scolari [19:42]:
I had and still have a very difficult time admitting that I am an extremely intelligent woman. It’s even very hard for those four words to leave my mouth as I’m talking on this podcast. All these fears are coming up for me that’s like, “Oh, God, people are going to think you’re so stuck up.” But I’m trying to move through those fears and, the fact of the matter is, I am a very intelligent person. I have been blessed with lots of intelligence and I’m very grateful for that. But I have always had a very hard time allowing myself to just be very, very smart.
Alyssa Scolari [20:29]:
I have always had to find an excuse. In fact, I used to convince myself like, “Oh, I must have cheated a lot in high school. I must have cheated a lot in college.” I did not cheat. How does one cheat in college or grad school? How do I cheat in grad school? I absolutely did not, absolutely didn’t but, in my brain, I’ve always have some other external reason for why I had so much success. I even graduated the top of my cohort in grad school.
Alyssa Scolari [21:04]:
My cohort, the people that I was in my program with actually used to make fun of me all the time. I was the odd person out because I didn’t have to try as much as they did. Now, I’m going to stop talking about that because it actually really makes me uncomfortable to say it because I feel like I’m bragging. I promise you I’m not, I’m just trying to state the facts here and I’m trying to let myself have a moment where I can compliment myself, I can state a fact about myself that’s good and just let it be good without needing a reason that isn’t about me. I hope this is making sense to you all.
Alyssa Scolari [21:46]:
Impostor syndrome has also shown up in my career. Starting my own business, I will never forget, pretty much, what the days were like when I first started my own business. It was so scary for me and, as successful as I was right off the bat, my business, my private practice was so successful right off the bat and I felt so guilty because most people who start their own business struggle and struggle for years and years and years especially because I opened up my own business, what? Maybe seven months before the pandemic and it was a nightmare for so many small business owners but I had been doing so well and I could not accept that, my brain could not tolerate that.
Alyssa Scolari [22:44]:
I had to keep telling myself and one of the things I would say is, “The only reason I’m successful is because I had already built up a good reputation by working for the police department before I opened up my private practice.” So, that’s the only reason why I was successful and it’s, A, that’s not the only reason and, B, even if it was the only reason, why isn’t that still good enough? Yes, I did build a good reputation for myself because I’m very good at what I do. Why can’t that just be enough? Why do I always have to negate my successes and my positive characteristics?
Alyssa Scolari [23:36]:
Again, I know so many of you can relate. Now, as I’ve said, I have gotten so much better with the impostor syndrome over the years. I have really been able to tackle this, I actually consider myself these days to be somebody who has moderate amount of confidence. I consider myself to be a pretty competent person, not competent in all areas and, occasionally, my impostor syndrome does come roaring back.
Alyssa Scolari [24:06]:
It turns out my impostor syndrome has been playing a rather large role in this podcast and I don’t think I really realized it until the person who I had talked about earlier who became a new patron for the podcast and sent me that beautiful email. I don’t think I realized that impostor syndrome had such a hold on me until I got that email because what that email did is it made me realize that I am making a difference in people’s lives and it caused me to go back and look at the data on all of the podcast episodes that I have done so far. And by data I mean I’m looking at all the downloads, I’m looking at all the areas of the world in which I’ve received downloads, I’m looking at how many downloads each episode has, I’m looking at how my downloads have increased from the very start of this podcast in August of 2020 to where we are now in February of 2022.
Alyssa Scolari [25:12]:
And the data is undeniable and is telling me something that is a little bit hard for me to grapple with because of impostor syndrome, which is, you all really love my solo or individual episodes way, way more than most of the guest episodes. And, when this podcast started, it was pretty much all guest episodes with a little bit of me doing an individual episode here and there but I didn’t really want to have anybody listen to me yammer on and on and on.
Alyssa Scolari [25:58]:
So, I was like, “Oh, I’ll have all these guests on,” but, over the last, I don’t know, what? Few months or so, really, I have started doing more and more individual episodes and I have become much pickier about the guests that come on my show. And I am very intentional about who comes on my show and I’m also very intentional about what I talk about on the show and I have forced myself, not forced, but I have pushed myself to be more and more vulnerable on this podcast and share more of my own personal battle with trauma and health issues and everything.
Alyssa Scolari [26:46]:
In a way, this podcast has really become a very safe space for me to share some of what I’ve gone through in the hopes that it can help those who are listening. And, again, the data does not lie. You all really like these individual episodes and, when I get emails from people, these are emails of people that are talking about these individual episodes where you are all relating to things that I am sharing. And, I’ve seen this trend for a while but I think, subconsciously, my impostor syndrome has kicked in and I’ve really told myself like, “Oh, people don’t really want to hear me talk. People really don’t want to hear what I have to say and who am I to be on here talking about this stuff. I’m nobody.” But the fact of the matter is, is I am somebody and I have a lot of training in this, both professional training and, honestly, personal training. And I’ve watched my loved ones deal with this and I’ve seen hundreds of clients and I’ve worked in all different settings.
Alyssa Scolari [27:57]:
I’ve worked in one of the most dangerous cities in the entire country and that was my very first job out of school. I was working in one of the most dangerous cities in the country, I was working with child gang members so I have a lot of experience doing this. And I think that it really wasn’t until I got that email this week or last week that I realized it’s time for me to really continue to be who I am and show it unapologetically on this podcast and stop questioning whether or not people want to hear me because the downloads don’t lie.
Alyssa Scolari [28:43]:
And you all don’t lie who have reached out to me and told me how much these individual episodes or these solo episodes where it’s just me talking have helped you. Now, don’t get me wrong, some of the guest episodes have been absolutely wonderful and I’ve gotten great feedback but this podcast has just had a very different feel to it since I’ve started doing these individual episodes where it’s just me talking.
Alyssa Scolari [29:07]:
So, I just wanted to say thank you all very much for the feedback and thank you for helping to pull me out of my own impostor syndrome because I am now going to be doing more and more of these solo episodes and I’m going to be even more strategic when it comes to deciding which guests I’m going to bring on, so thank you all so much for your feedback. And so, moving on to talk a little bit more about what we can do about impostor syndrome because so many of us struggle with this but what do we do about it? Well, in this article that I had referenced earlier, Valerie Young, the leading expert on impostor syndrome has a couple of tips on things that we can do.
Alyssa Scolari [29:52]:
And the first thing that she recommends is, something that I always recommend, breaking the silence. Let’s start speaking about it because with impostor syndrome comes a lot of shame and shame and guilt really start to lose their power when we start talking about it. So, when you are noticing these feelings of impostor syndrome, speak out about it just like I’m doing today here on the podcast with you all.
Alyssa Scolari [30:21]:
Next, she recommends separating feelings from facts which I find always very, very helpful. When you are in your head about impostor syndrome and feeling like you’re not worthy of the praise or success that you’ve had, I find that it’s so helpful to be your own detective and sit down, take out a piece of paper or pull up a Word document on the computer and separate your feelings from facts. What are the facts about your success? And, based on the facts about your success, what conclusion can you draw? Because if you start writing down a list of facts about your success, I can almost guarantee you that the only conclusion that you can draw is that the success that you’ve had is a result of who you are internally, not some other external source.
Alyssa Scolari [31:15]:
Next is she talks about recognizing when you should feel fraudulent. This one is a little bit iffy to me. I think that it’s the wording of this that throws me off because what she’s really talking about is there are times where you can recognize and acknowledge that it’s okay to feel fraudulent. For example, let’s take people who have disabilities. Let’s say somebody becomes an advocate, somebody who has a disability becomes an advocate or a speaker or a writer or rises to fame, you’re a TikTok star, whatever you are and you speak out for people with disabilities. Well, sometimes impostor syndrome can come up in the sense that you’re not going to be able to speak for everybody. Even though you represent a group of people who have been stereotyped and discriminated against, you still can’t speak for everybody.
Alyssa Scolari [32:22]:
And, in that case, you’re not being fraudulent, it’s just important to acknowledge that you cannot speak for everybody. For me, yes, I do have training in this area and I do have professional and personal expertise but I’m never going to sit here and say that I speak for all trauma survivors, all sexual abuse survivors, all domestic violence survivors because that really would be fraudulent. I have no idea what it’s like to be in other people’s shoes. So, I’m speaking, really, from me and from my experiences and education. I hope that that makes sense and is not offensive because I could see how it can be a little offensive but I hope me explaining that helps you to understand what that means.
Alyssa Scolari [33:15]:
Now, she also recommends accentuating the positive which is, again, exactly as it sounds, focusing on the positive. This is really, really hard. It’s nice, this is a nice suggestion but it takes a lot of hard work. It sounds much simpler than it is because we are so prone, especially as trauma survivors, to perseverate on the negative. So, what she’s trying to say here, and I think that this goes back to separating feelings from facts, which is let’s put more of our energy and focus in on the positive instead of all the things that went wrong, whether it’s in a relationship, in a career move, whatever it may be. I think this one can be useful sometimes and not useful in other times. For those of us who are perfectionists, and I’m definitely one of them, I think that this is helpful because, again, I tend to focus on all the things that weren’t good enough. So, I think take this one for what it is, really, and how it may or may not fit for you.
Alyssa Scolari [34:28]:
The next one is developing a healthy response to failure and mistake making. Again, I feel like so many of these are really similar which is really grappling with this idea of what does failure mean to you and how can we depersonalize failure? Meaning shifting from thinking that failure is this mark or this symbol that we are not good enough as humans rather than seeing failure as simply an opportunity to learn and to continue to move forward. Easier said than done, I think a lot of cognitive behavioral therapy helps a lot with that. And then, again, right along the lines with CBT, she talks about writing the rules and developing a new script which, basically, is what are the rules that you’re telling yourself in your head?
Alyssa Scolari [35:26]:
If you have this motto and this narrative in your head of I’m never allowed to ask for help or I always have to know the answer to everything that somebody asks me about this subject. Well, are these rules that are going to set you up for success? Or, are these rules that are actually going to set you up to even further increase your impostor syndrome because these are impossible rules. So, let’s start developing a new script which is, yes, I’m considered an expert in this area but that doesn’t mean I know everything and it’s okay to say I don’t know. That rule is a lot more forgiving and more realistic than this narrative in our head that we’re just supposed to know how to do everything in life.
Alyssa Scolari [36:15]:
Rewarding yourself, she recommends which is, again, validating yourself, being really kind to yourself, giving yourself a pat on the back for the things that you’ve done, visualizing your success. She talks about meditating which I think is really helpful. I think, sometimes, it’s a little abstract for trauma survivors. I think, sometimes, we need more hands on stuff but I do think that visualization exercises can be really, really good and I shouldn’t say that it’s too abstract for trauma survivors but I think it depends on where you’re at in your journey.
Alyssa Scolari [36:55]:
Maybe, sometimes, you can sit there and you can meditate and you can visualize yourself being successful and see what that feels like and work through those feelings but, sometimes our nervous systems are just too dysregulated and we can’t do that and, if you can’t, that’s okay. In that case, I would go back to just writing down your successes, writing things down and even writing down how you’re going to rewrite your roles, develop a new script, a new narrative for yourself, things like that.
Alyssa Scolari [37:27]:
And then the last one she talks about is fake it till you make it. Now, I really hate that phrase and she even admits in this article that that’s very outdated. So, what that means, basically, we’re not going to say fake it till you make it, what that means is continue to push yourself. Your impostor syndrome, talk about it, work through it, write things down but do not let it keep you from doing the things that you really want to do in life. Continue to put yourself out there, continue to do these things.
Alyssa Scolari [38:04]:
I’m a little bit worried every time I sit down to record but I am still continuing to put myself out there knowing that, you know what, I am going to be wrong at some point, I’m sure I’ve been wrong in the … No, I’m not sure, I’ve definitely been wrong in the past about many, many things, I’m going to continue to be wrong in the future. People are going to call me out for it, I’m going to learn from it and I’m going to realize that my failure or my wrongdoing or my mistakes is not a result of me being a horrible human being but, rather, it’s just part of me being a human being.
Alyssa Scolari [38:42]:
So, that’s what that means. Continue to put yourself out there because one of the only ways to continue to combat impostor syndrome is to continue to build your confidence. So, I hope that that was helpful. Again, some of those tips I love and I think are really, really helpful, others not so much but I am going to link this article where she provides those tips in the show notes. Again, just take it with a grain of salt, remember that not every recommendation is going to work for everybody. Also, remember that recovering from impostor syndrome takes time. It takes changing the neural pathways in your brain and that’s not something that happens overnight. So, try some of these things out, see what works for you and thank you all for listening.
Alyssa Scolari [39:41]:
If you like what you hear on the podcast, please be sure to go and give it a rating or a review. Ratings and reviews help so much for the podcast to grow and that is something that is really important because, the more the podcast grows, the more people can get free access to mental health education which is so important and so needed by everybody in the world. And we also have a Patreon, if you are able to financially support the podcast in any way, shape or form, that would be so appreciated. You can also find the link to that in the show notes and thank you all very much for listening. Hope this was helpful. I will be holding you all in the light and have a wonderful week.
Alyssa Scolari [40:29]:
Thanks for listening everyone. For more information, please head over to lightaftertrauma.com or you can also follow us on social media. On Instagram we are @lightaftertrauma and on Twitter it is @lightafterpod. Lastly, please head over to patreon.com/lightaftertrauma to support our show, we are asking for $5 a month which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks. So, please head on over. Again, that’s patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. Thank you and we appreciate your support.